On Episode 95 of The DYOJO Podcast we discussed A Tale of Two Contractor Litigation Scenarios.
These are two very different litigation experiences. We discuss some of the ways that they are similar and mostly the areas where they diverge. We highlight some of the important lessons contractors can learn from both scenarios. Guest Whitney Wiseman, a contractor out of Palm Springs, Florida joins us to share his insights. He reminds his peers in property restoration, "We are a specialized trade in the construction industry. We all should act like contractors. We should be professional in our state as our state regulates us to. And we should utilize everything that is in our power in order to protect ourselves from a customer screwing us over." Tale #1: RJ Construction v. AI School DistrictOn prior episodes of The DYOJO podcast we've been talking about a case out of Texas. One of the local news broadcasts summarizes this litigation tale in this manner, "An Arlington construction company says it worked around the clock last February [2021] to clean up a flooded school. Months later it says it has yet to be paid." This is in reference to Robert Jordan Construction (RJC) versus the Arlington Independent School District (AISD). In this case, Robert Jordan Construction responded to flooding after Winter Storm Uri hit the area in 2021. RJC thought they had an agreement about the scope and the cost, but they discovered (or ignored) that was not the case. We've been unlocking as many of the pieces to that story as we've been able to find in the court documents and public records. So it's brought to light some questions, some teachable moments for contractors, especially for those who are new or newer to larger projects. On an insurance claim project like this one, there are multiple parties are involved. It's not just the customer, the insurance company, and the contractor. Whitney Wiseman reminds contractors, "What we're talking about today, which I think is so important," is for all contractors to, "Do your job. Do your documentation. Be transparent. Be a stand up contractor. If you do those things, you shouldn't end up in a situation like homeboy did out in Texas." Tale #2: Conway Construction v. City of PuyallupTale number two is a case that came across the desk here at The DYOJO Podcast. It's called Conway Construction versus the city of Puyallup. Some of you may recognize that is the town that I currently reside in. It's just outside of Tacoma, which is just South of Seattle in Washington State. Are you aware that when a contract is terminated, there's two terms under which it can be terminated:
These distinctions are something that all contractors should be aware of and ensure they are addressed in their contracts. There needs to be specific language that outlines what happens if the customer finds a defect or is unhappy with the performance of the contractor. Language should include a description of the notification process as well as how the contractor will respond. Usually the customer is responsible to notify the contractor of a defect in writing. The contractor will have X number of days to come up with a remedial plan that is agreeable to all parties. If the issue isn't resolved with the corrective actions, or if the parties can't come to agreement, then the contract explains how the process will proceed. One of the most important things any contractor and customer can do to avoid litigation is to agree on a process for how disagreements will be resolved. In the event that the worst happens, how will both parties terminate the agreement with the least amount of collateral damage? If the customer is going to terminate the contract for cause, there is a process. Every contractor should have a conversation with their client explaining that if they believe there's something wrong with the project, the contractor has first rights to try to remedy the issue. A quality contractor wants to make things right. If this process is outlined in the contractual agreement but the customer doesn't follow that, as the City of Puyallup didn't follow their own contract, then they may surrender their default claim. Most contracts can be terminated at will, or for convenience, as long as no bad will is in play. So a customer doesn't need a reason to kick a contractor off of a job but they will need to follow the termination for convenience process outlined in the contract. Especially, as was in the case of Conway v. Puyallup, if the customer was the one that drafted the contract terms. This case reminds contractors and customers to be aware another item which is "the plain and ordinary meaning" of the words utilized in the contract. The Supreme Court of Washington emphasized when the contract terms are clear, the court will enforce it as written. As a contractor, it is important that a non-legal person can read and understand the contract. Two Types of Contract TerminationWithin the contract between Conway Construction and the City of Puyallup, it stated that a termination for convenience would entitle the contractor to greater damages than if it was terminated for cause. Under the agreement, a contractor terminated for convenience was entitled to be paid for all actual work performed until the date of termination. While the city terminated the contract claiming it was because of the contractors alleged breach of the agreement. When the trial judge reviewed the facts they ruled that the termination was not for cause. Since the termination was not for cause, the contract terms converted the termination of Conway Construction to one for convenience. The Supreme Court of Washington ultimately affirmed that decision. The high court reached this conclusion simply by reviewing the plain language of the contract. The termination for cause could only be based on defective work if the contractor neglected or refused to correct rejected work. This mutual agreement further provided that upon 15 days written notice the contractor had to remedy the work to the satisfaction of the city. If the reader has been following our review of RJC vs. AISD, they will note that the facts of this Conway case vary significantly from those outlined in the Robert Jordan court documents.
A contractor should document everything from the agreements that they make, the conversations that they have with any party to the project, and any essential communication related to defects, defaults, and remedies. A typical communication (or Comms) log, such as those we have recommended before on the podcast, might include:
The contractor in this case was able to document that it took steps to remedy the alleged defaults and reached out to the city to determine if the corrective efforts were sufficient. The city however, refused to meet with the contractor. The trial judge therefore found that the contractor was not neglecting or refusing to correct the defect and that the city's failure and refusal to meet with the contractor to discuss the remedial actions was unreasonable or made in bad faith which had the effect of making the termination one for convenience rather than one for cause. The court stated their decision was thereby bound by the terms of the contract. Customizing Construction ContractsRegular listeners will remember Bebo Crain form our prior discussions regarding RJC v. AISD. Bebo believes, "You gotta adapt your situation. Each project has different amounts of risk and the protections [in your contract] depend on the amount of risk. I recommend getting a lawyer that will sit down with you to write a contract for your situtaion. You write out the things that you have done wrong and identify those as your risks. As more risks come you will work with your attorney to add those to your contract. It can be an evolving contract. As you obtain more situations that you feel you might be entering risk and learn how to hedge that risk with your contract and your disclosures." These two litigation scenarios remind contractors of a couple of key elements:
A contract is agreed to by both parties. In the RJC case one of the arguments is whether there ever was an agreement in place. In the Conway case, the contractor signed off on the process of default and made a good faith effort towards addressing the issues that the customer brought to their attention. In the RJC case we shared a news clip that says the school district is asking for documentation that the contract says doesn't exist. In the Conway case the contractor documented their process all the way through the project. Their documentation was sufficient enough that it held up in court. Conway was able to show they were within the terms of the agreement. According to court proceedings in the Conway case, the customer came to the contractor with the defect issue(s). Upon 15 days written notice the contractor had to remedy the work to the satisfaction of the city. The notice from the customer was to be in writing. It is usually in everyone's best interest to attempt to settle a disagreement prior to going to court. In Conway, the contractor received notice, made the corrections, and documented their follow through. It is important to be able to present documentation of agreements, phone calls, emails, text messages, meetings, and any other form of communication with the client. The contractor showed:
The contractor can say, we understand the language of the contract, we did the right thing, because we followed through with the remedial action, and we documented our processes. The court read the agreement, saw the facts, and concluded that this termination was no longer for cause. In this case the language of this contract was dictated by the city. This is often the case for government work, where the government entity presents the bidding terms as well as the terms of the agreement. The contractor should therefore carefully read their agreements, especially when the agreement is drafted by the other party, and understand all of its terms before signing. Then if the dispute arises, the contractor can use the plain language of the contract to argue in support of its position in the dispute. Learning From Contractor PodcastsFrom the feedback we have received on our podcast, contractors enjoy hearing other contractor's stories. It can be helpful to hear from someone else who has been there and done that. It is good for contractors to shorten their learning curve but they should understand that they cannot outsource or replace their learning curve. Gaining experience and adapting your operating procedures are critical to building a sustainable business. Whitney Wiseman encourages restoration contractors to, "Reach outside of social media. Find individuals who excel in their space. Make sure that you learn as much as you possibly can from these individuals who are not trying to make money off of you and truly want to be your mentors." Mr. Wiseman paused during our discussion because he sees an issue. He says, "I see more mentors in our industry right now that want to make money off of everybody who's green, then I do individuals who are just willing to help. And to me, that's sad, because I came up in this industry where there were people who would answer their phone, give me the advice that I need, and it was free. But right now it's a weird world." While Whitney advises that contractors are cautious with whom they trust, he also says, "There's a lot of people, though, that can really help you to be the best in the industry. Reach inside the industry for those people. But, when it comes to contracts, when it comes to business, when it comes to all these other things, get as far outside of this industry's mindset as you can and started attacking it as a professional. For instance, we [property restoration contractors and claims professionals] are a specialized trade in the construction industry. We all should act like contractors. We should be professional in our state as our state regulates us too. We should utilize everything that is in our power in order to protect ourselves from a customer screwing us over. At no point in time should we use these shortcuts in order to gain success because I can guarantee every single person the long road is worth it every single time versus the shortcuts. Learn from my mistakes." Lesson Learned from Storm Response WorkshopIf you would like to be in person with people that are experts in the industry that have years and years of experience, and are sharing their stories, join us Thursday, January 26, 2023. The DYOJO is traveling to Naples, Florida, for the Andrew Ask Building Science Symposium (aka Winter Break 2023). Andrew Ask runs Tuesday and Wednesday, then separate from that but at the same location, Pete Consigli and Jon Isaacson will be putting together a one day workshop titled Lessons Learned from Storm Response and Hurricane Recovery. Be there or be square.
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In our latest video from The DYOJO Podcast we discuss three things:
Overcoming the fear of creating contentIf you have something on your heart that you want to share with your industry peers, we want to encourage you to HIT SEND. I was talking to some industry professionals earlier this week about creating content. There are several of you that I've talked to that have the content either ready to upload articles, books, videos, or podcasts. You're ready to hit send, but for whatever reason, you have not. Too often what we hear about as professionals is the finished product. Whether we are scared to share or have been stymied into silence by success, we should encourage and seek out stories that help us see the process that led to the outcome." What I'd like to relay to you is a little piece of the story that I shared in an article called Creating Impactful Content, which has been published through Property Casualty 360. I shared a personal story about some excellent advice that Rachel Stewart, author of Unqualified Success, gave me. If you have not read her book yet, it's one of the best in the self-help category that I have read. I am happy to report that it's from the property restoration industry. One day, after reading her book, we had a call. If we had not made contact, I my first book may not have happened or would have taken a lot longer to be published. During our conversation, I was sharing that I wanted to write a book but didn't know if I had unique content to share. I am paraphrasing her response, but she said that there is no unique or new content, there's only your unique experiences, approach, and applications of those principles. This simple truth was very freeing to me and it's good advice for anyone who has something they want to share. What is impactful about your story or my story is exactly that, it's our story. When you can share, "These are the issues I faced, these are the creative solutions that our team came up with, and this is how we've seen those ideas either just flame or make a positive impact in our company. I believe this is the key to good, impactful content. Most of the positive feedback that we get from our podcast is that people are encouraged to hear the real-life stories of their peers. It's encouraging to hear someone say that they've been there, they've done that, and lived to tell about it. You can help others shorten their dang learning curve by sharing the lessons that have shortened yours. Working with the right mentorsAll these half assed contractors out there, who are not doing things properly. Who are not following your own SOPs. Who are not creating systems and things in place to protect yourselves. You're only hurting the industry and yourself. Stop it, get smart." - Whitney Wiseman We want to shorten our dang learning curve, but there's no replacing it. We want to thank Whitney Wiseman for joining us for a recent conversation. We are going to share some of his thoughts on working with the right mentors and coaches for your business. Whitney advises, "Reach outside of social media, find individuals who excel in their space, and make sure that you learn as much as you possibly can from these individuals." The way he sees it, too many in the coaching space are looking to make money rather than being a resource and helping the industry. He says, "I see more mentors in our industry right now that want to make money off of everybody who's green, then I do any individuals who are just willing to help. And to me, that's sad, because I came up in this industry where there were people who would answer their phone, give me the advice that I need, and it was free. But right now, it's a weird world." If you are new to the industry, you may have felt the same way. Mr. Wiseman is not saying that there are no good coaches or mentors, rather be wise in how you determine who you are going to work with. "There's a lot of people, though, that can really help you to be the best in the industry. Reach inside the industry for those people." He believes that a lot of good also comes out of looking outside of "the box" or the mindset of a given industry. For example, "When it comes to contracts, when it comes to business, when it comes to all these other things get as far outside of this industries mindset as you can and started attacking it as a professional. For instance, we are a specialized trade in the construction industry. We all should act like contractors and we should be professional in our state, as our state regulates us too. We should utilize everything that is in our power in order to protect ourselves from a customer screwing us over. At no point in time should we use these shortcuts in order to gain success, because I can guarantee every single person that the long road is worth it every single time versus the shortcuts. Learn from my mistakes." Learning from each others mistakes is an excellent way to shorten our dang learning curves. As we said in the segment above on creating content, if you have experiences to share of ideas that worked, and even those that failed, these can be impactful to your peers who are also learning to succeed. Preparing for courtFor episode 94 of The DYOJO Podcast, we asked Bob Blochinger, "If someone were to call themselves an industry expert, what would your expectation be of their like credentials and experience be?"
Bob may have the quote of 2022 when he shares, "An expert is somebody who knows what he's talking about through experience, training, and education. I call it a pyramid of training, education and experience. You cannot become an expert without all three." He calls this a pyramid of expertise. As a flooring expert, Mr. Blochinger is no stranger to the courtroom, he has been called upon as an expert witness multiple times. He states that an expert is expected to answer, "Whatever questions or explore bugs or problems or whatever exists that needs explanation or evaluation." We have heard it said that if you can't explain it to an elementary aged child, you don't really know what you are talking about. In the courtroom, Bob says an expert, "Needs to know what he's saying and how to explain it so a regular person understands. For instance, when you sit in a court in the witness stand and you get grilled by the opposing attorney, you do not have notes in front of you, you do not have a book, you do not have photographs, but you have to ask answer all the questions." If you have developed mastery through experience, training, and education you will come across as intelligent. The Federal Rules of Evidence 702 outlines the Daubert Standard whereby a witness who is qualified as an expert via their knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education. An expert may testify in the form of an opinion or otherwise, if a their scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge help "the trier of fact" to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue. The Daubert Standard is also a great metric for determining information that you are receiving as a profession is relevant and reliable. When you receive information from industry leaders, influencers, or experts, you can more effectively ask, "Is this relevant to my situation and does the advice rest on a reliable foundation?" In court the testimony must demonstrate that it is based on sufficient facts or data. The opinion of the expert should have been demonstrated to be the product of reliable principles and methods. This affirms that as professionals we want to apply a scientific method or methodology to the processing of information for determining what advice is reliable. A scientific methodology helps us determine whether the theory or technique employed by an "expert: is:
That last point is interesting as we want to eliminate confirmation bias. Just because we hypothesize something, we then need to guard against our inclination to only present the information that supports our hypothesis. We have to be open to our hypothesis being wrong, or we are not being scientific. As an expert witness the professional must demonstrate that they have reliably applied the principles and methods to the facts of the case. How important is this in our professional journeys? When I am reading industry publications like C&R magazine or Cleanfax, I find myself listening for those people who have been there, done that. Those who have a problem, discussed it with their team and said, "This is a creative solution that has worked for us." Mr. Blochinger closes our discussion with these insights, "You need to know what you're talking about to be labeled as an expert. Commonly people say, 'Well, I'm 50 miles away, so I must be an expert.' It doesn't work that way. You don't become an expert without years of training, experience, and education." We would like your feedback on the content that The DYOJO creates to help contractors shorten their DANG learning curve. You can fill this out anonymously if you prefer. *One entry per person I just wanted to make you aware, if you are on The DYOJO mailing list, I have sent out an end of year survey. We'd love to get your feedback what we're doing well as well as what we could improve in our content delivery.
If you consume podcasts, especially those that are for free, one thing you could do that helps any podcaster out, whether it's our podcast, one of the many great podcasts from within our industry; whether it's YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, all of the above,
On The DYOJO Podcast Episode 94 I read a review. The input advised that we should be more like all the other podcasts. I do take in the input. I know for the longest time, we've had a lot of trouble getting the audio correct. I have fixed I believe most of that. Currently a lot of the feedback from the most vociferous listeners of our podcast are asking for us to dial it back on some of the craziness. Their voices are going to be the ones that get heard and I will have to consider and contemplate whether I need to alter anything. So, if you listen to The DYOJO Podcast and you like the craziness, now is the time to speak up. If you have some constructive feedback, we want to hear it. A one star and a three star review have equal value to a five star in the sense that it gives feedback to the artist. Once you leave feedback, you should loop back to see whether the content creator is receiving your feedback. Remember, we are creating content delivered to you for free. Your feedback is appreciated. Your feedback is read and listened to. I already have several people that have reported back in from The DYOJO End of Year Survey that we sent out. So thank you for that. Your input is helpful. You can find the link to this survey above. Everyone who starts a business knows profitability is important, but too often contractors treat it as optional. This podcast goes along with a recent C&R article titled "The 4 Modes of Profitability for Contractors." It was the first in a series to attempt to help new entrepreneurs, in-progress contractors, and aspiring persons in a position of leadership to better grasp the essential nature of overhead and profit (O&P) within the skilled trades. If a contractor charges for some level of overhead and profit (O&P) they will have a fighting chance every year and will be ahead of many of their competitors." - Jon Isaacson In this episode of Restoration Today, Jon Isaacson, the author of the first article and orchestrator of the entire series, walks through how contractors can help themselves and their team members form better mindsets and habits as they think through the four modes of profitability for contractors.
The video and article discuss The 4 Modes of Profitabliy for Contractors:
This is the first in a series of articles; upcoming features in C&R Magazine will include input from Ben Justesen, Anthony Nelson, and Ed Cross. Ben will help contractors to understand their numbers and incorporate them into their true labor burden (Labor + O&P). Anthony will share his vast experience in tracking material, equipment, and other cost realities to more accurately incorporate these items into your estimating process (Materials + O&P). Ed Cross has some exciting news to share from the frontlines of overhead and profit collection. All of these concepts will help contractors to determine the appropriate markups (what you add) to achieve their margin (what you make) goals. If someone were to call themselves an industry expert, what would your expectation be of their like credentials and experience? What are you stupid? But yeah, no. We definitely need to get the education up The DYOJO Podcast. There it is. opening salvo. What does it mean to be an expert, an industry expert. And we're live live. Here we are a free podcast, on a free platform, offering ideas for free to those who dare to listen. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you publicly. If you're watching screen left is The Restoration Lawyer Ed Cross, screen right is Jeff Cross of Cleanfax Magazine. Apparently no relation. Same last name as me but we are not related. As far as we know. This video is The Cost of Doing Business Exclusion Claim by Insurance Adjusters is Fake News. It drops truth. This is Take Five from the ISSA Media YouTube page, definitely check that out. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you publicly for making a valiant effort to try to get Jon Isaacson to engage in a serious interview. It's a tough thing to do. I don't know. But we're trying. Keep trying and eventually you'll wear him down. That Jon Isaacson that's a whole another topic. I think by now if you've listened to more than one show, hopefully we've gotten a little bit better over time. Yeah, one of the biggest issues early on, was I was interjecting clips, but didn't have a lot of audio control. And even until not that recently, not a lot of great expertise. Oh, that ties into our topic. If someone were to call themselves an industry expert, what would your expectation be? Not a lot of great expertise as I was working out this experiment which delivers content for free, free, free to listeners who ingest and consume it for free. Just by way of reminder and a season of thankfulness. If you're thankful for a podcast, be it our podcast or an industry podcast or any other podcast. One of the best ways you can help people, especially those who are doing it for for free, is to subscribe, like, and rate it. It helps. So the robots think people are listening. Leaving a review can be helpful as well. So I'm gonna read one such review. Solid content funny, but so far, I'm loving the content slash information in the casual conversational approach. But. But, chill out on the soundbite addons. It's funny, until it happens over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. And like you're unraveling a big cable knit sweater that someone keeps knitting and knitting over and over and over and makes it super frustrating to keep pace with the content. The introduction length is nauseatingly long and overdone. Fix that don't ditch it, just chill out a bit. Keep the humor and the conversation approach five stars. They actually gave it three stars justify implemented their constructive input, then, then it would be five stars. So thank you, HFCFFHJJKFX. Thank you for being so brave. Being the best loser takes talent just as being the best winner does. It's true. It's kind of hard to read this as anything other than if you're like other podcasts, I might listen to it as much as I listen to them. As a contractor, do you ever ask yourself? What are we doing here Harry? Enter an audio visual experience like no other. The DYOJO Podcast, we are helping contractors shorten their dang learning curve. This discussion about expertise included IAQ Josh. Yes. Let's pick up the conversation. As a representative, Pete called out the mold assessors and remediators for not going to things Josh, what do you have to say about that? I mean, I think the latest review that I did on an assessment report live on YouTube. If you didn't catch it, you should over at Youtube.com/IAQJosh. However, I think that speaks volume on the lack of education. What are you stupid? Literally that's what it is. You know. I came up with people like Howard Newmark around me that is just a super analytical dude, and does things like very methodically. And then I've been exposed to even more individuals like that and more in the building science world. But getting back to what you said unfortunately, there's just either a lack of care, or a lack of care is kind of what it just seems to be because the education is there. I mean, what I'm doing on YouTube and what you're doing and I think you wrote a book or two or, but ya know, we definitely needed to get the education up. People just need to be exposed to it. I mean, at the end of the day, again, we can lead the horse to water if they come and they choose to leave that class and not better themselves. That's on them. But at the end of the day, at least, you know, expose yourself to that. There you go. There's the advice from IAQ Josh, everyone expose yourself. You haven't gotten a whole lot of flack on your last video calling out crappy reports? Not at all. I was actually surprised. It's weird when sometimes I've got something that I think might be a little incendiary. And then you put it out and then everyone is like, oh, makes sense. Did you watch anything on the one I did on the contractor down in Texas that's getting sued. I caught bits and pieces. It seemed like there were two sides to it. And you were trying to do your best from the just that I saw to cover both sides of it. Flawless execution of an awkward segue linking us back to a prior episode. You're diving into a case that's RJ Construction versus Arlington Independent School District. An Arlington construction company says it worked around the clock last February to clean up a flooded school. Months later it says it has yet to be paid. Michelle Blevins, C&R Magazine, thank you for asking that question. RJC thinks they're owed over 1.2 million. The school district paid like 187,000. A check that was never cashed. And said there's more if you provide the documentation, we need to justify it. The AISD says they would pay more, but they need more documentation. And it appears they asked for that early on. So it's not like they just did it at the end. But obviously a much more detailed list from the insurance company. But I think I told you, I'm gonna probably incorporate some of your moisture mapping video. In order to know if you are actually drying, you need to know what your environmental conditions are, you need to know what your moisture concentration levels are. These are things that we monitored daily. This is a clip of a video from IAQ Josh's YouTube page Moisture Mapping for Restoration Contractors 101. These are things that the insurance adjuster is going to want you to provide at the end, if you want to get paid. So do yourself, your due diligence and make sure that you've got some level of competence documentation could be something like this could be pen and paper, quite frankly, I don't care how it's done. I just want to see the industry evolve. And this trade gets better and better and better. And ultimately, of course being taken more seriously in some regards. One of the news clips reports the school district is asking for documentation that RJC doesn't says doesn't exist. It's like, uh-oh. This is a podcast about shortening your dang learning curve. That's taking in information from multiple sources. So on this podcast, we've got some of the younger restorers, Josh Winton and myself. We've got Bob Blochinger and Pete Consigli. So we're going to have a conversation about what it means to develop into the expert level. To pursue that and to have that hunger as an industry professional. We also discuss an upcoming event that will provide some additional exposure to training that will kickoff 2023. Mindset change. Hi, everybody out there in DYOJO nation. Infotainment. We will entertain you whilst we also inform you. What you're doing is terrific every day. People should be listening to you. The DYOJO Podcast. What does it take to become an industry expert? I call it a pyramid of training, education and experience. You cannot become an expert without all three. Say it again. Training, experience and education. If you're new in this industry or you're working hard to accelerate your development you may notice there are a lot of industry events. We obviously want to make you aware of one that we're directly involved with, as are the other people in this particular podcast. I'm a big guy for education, I usually go to maybe two or three events a year. Okay, so this is the Andrew Ask Building Science Symposium 2023 (aka Winter Break). This is the climate zone one - climatezoneone.com. That's the the site for there on the homepage and a website. We have a link for registration, I think we have a link for the hotel for the room. And then we have a link that can take you through all the presentations and scheduling, and the bios on all the speakers. Everything that you need is on the website, one simple click. So Tuesday, Wednesday is the Andrew Ask Building Science Symposium. And then Thursdays, Pete is putting a workshop together. I think The DYOJO is now the official, quote unquote, sponsor or promoter, so no one will come. Tuesday, Wednesday, there it is, Andrew Ask, okay. And then whatever you agreed to do with Pete is on Thursday, Okay. Come here and have a lot of fun and gain some education. It's gonna be a very multidisciplinary audience. January 23rd, 24th, 25th and 26th. In today's world, it's scientific. Great networking, great content, the Andrew Ask Building Science Symposium aka the 2023 Winter Break in Naples, Florida. We don't have winter here, we have summer. Remember what they say baby, Be there, or be square. The website is climatezoneone.com and they're packed like seven o'clock till 530 is education time and some good networking. We're having full breakfast and the lunch and all that packed in goo. We'll have good breaks in the morning and afternoon. Climate Zone One is the whole the hot humid southern south of the country. I think the country is broken into five climate zones. We're planning on doing a younger guns get together on Monday, January 23, 2023 in Naples, Florida. We're framing that like Pete Consigli and Cliff Zlotnik as the Watchdogs Neighborhood. We're trying to put an event together where we bring the newer restorers in with older, not older but more experienced restorers. It's a Watchdog Neighborhood or we may call it the Moisture Mob Neighborhood. The consigliere and Clilff Zlotnik and friends. We're doing a cardigan dress code. The abbreviated title is The Cardigan Party, because we're going with the Mr. Rogers Neighborhood vibe. Then maybe at other industry events like RIA we can crash with the cardigans. The audience at the dojo and you guys are the younger the next upcoming generations. What that really is about is the veterans and the old timers who have been around, pass the baton to the next generation. If they want to be mentored, sharing information, just being a resource for them. If the horse doesn't want to come to the water, like Josh said, we'll have good water for them to drink if they don't want to come there and they don't want to drink. We want to give a huge shout out to the sponsors of The DYOJO Podcast. Those organizations also committed to helping you shorten your dang learning curve. First off is the Institute of inspection, cleaning and restoration certification. You know them industry wide as the IICRC. You want full access to all IICRC standards from any device at any time, and in any place. Get a standard subscription for about 50 cents a day. Visit iicrc.org today. Advocate Claim Service LLC, was founded to provide policyholders brokers and attorneys with a dedicated claim professional to develop a comprehensive claim presentation strategy. While ACS does not sell insurance, they make it work. If I want to take the anxiety out of my claim, who should I call? Advocate claim service. ACS's Principal Consultant David Princeton, a friend of the show has resolved disputed claims resulting in tremendous results and also contributes to C&R Magazine's column. Dear David. Anybody who calls himself an expert, like isn't an expert. The second you say, I am an expert. Well, now I don't trust anything you say. Hello, Bob. Bob, Robert. Bob, right? It's Bob, when we're talking. It's Robert, when you send me a check. We're just talking Bob, the difference between like an influencer, an industry leader and an industry expert. If someone were to call themselves an industry expert, what would your expectation be of their credentials and experience be? Expert is somebody who knows what he's talking about through experience, training and education. I call it a pyramid of training, education and experience. You cannot become an expert without all three. I agree with the general consensus going around that to be an expert, you have to know every single thing about every element of everything within that field. An individual that's kind of sought after for the expertise. Whatever questions, or problems or whatever exists that needs explanation or evaluation. The expert needs to know what he's saying and how to explain it so that a regular person can understand. For instance, when you sit in a court on the witness stand and you get grilled by the opposing attorney, you do not have notes in front of you. You do not have a book. You do not have photographs. You have to answer questions in a manner that you come across intelligent. That you understand. We call these competent witnesses subject matter experts. They have to pass the Daubert Challenge. According to the Federal Rules of Evidence 702, a witness who was qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education. This is a YouTube video from Forensics Group talking about the Daubert Rule. This rule addresses the knowledge, skill, training, and education of an relevant witness. I like how Bob puts it, "Education, training and experience." Experiences are often one of those key factors that ties all of it together. May testify in the form of an opinion or otherwise, if the experts scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge will help the trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue. I find this interesting. I'm thankful that Bob brought it up. This is a great metric as it's used in court to determine whether an expert witness and what they have to share is relevant and reliable. A good question to ask, is whether the information that you're receiving from industry leaders, influencers and experts, (a) is it relevant to the task at hand and (b) does it rest on a reliable foundation? That testimony is based on sufficient facts or data. That the testimony is the product of reliable principles and methods. This affirms we want to apply a scientific method or methodology to the processing of information to determining whether it's reliable. The scientific methodology helps us determine:
Does it eliminate confirmation bias? Just because we hypothesize this did we then only present the information that supported our hypothesis rather than actually being open to our hypothesis being wrong? The expert has reliably applied the principles and methods to the facts of the case. The expert has reliably applied the principles and methods of the facts of the case. My mind typically shifts when I'm reading industry publications like C&R magazine or Cleanfax Magazine, towards listening for those people who have been there done that. Those who have assessed a problem, discussed it with their team, and said this is a creative solution that has worked for us. That something works now for a shameless plug. Last week reminded everybody of our article in C&R Magazine - The 4 Modes of Profitability for Contractors. There's an article in the latest edition of Cleanfax Magazine - Goals, Effort and Results: Developing Excellence in Your Team. This article does attempt to apply a scientific method to how we communicate and encourage our teams. The Daubert Standard is the law in federal court and over half of the states. You need to know what you're talking about to be labeled as an expert. And, you know, comically people say, Well, I'm from 50 miles away, so I must be an expert. It doesn't work that way. You don't become an expert without years of training, experience and education. When you're looking for experts is the first place place you look is people that post a lot on Facebook. No. No, you too. It's YouTubers. Those are modern day experts. I had a college that had issues with the carpet installation, and I go there, I was hired by the product manufacturer. And the first thing I asked the installer is, what kind of experience you have in putting down this product? Well, it was especially product with a special installation system that everybody just doesn't know about. So his first comment was Why watch two movies on YouTube? Oh, no. That was a $50,000 hit to the installation company, because they let an amateur put it in. Youtube is good to watch as a reference. It doesn't make you an expert. You have to have certain talent when you're doing trade work. You got to have the talent and the mindset and the patience to do it correctly. We call it a redo; it's a skill. You got to be able to able to fix it so that you can't tell you fixed it. And you got to be able to afford the screw up. I always tell guys to read the label. Read the label. Read the label. It's funny you say that. I mean, that was my big takeaway from your last year we had the Winter Break 2022, The Mold Winter Break. The summary was exactly that. If you're putting this floor in, read the damn label. And make sure you're using the glue that's designed for that floor and you're doing the prep the way the instructions say. Would you say a significant portion of the flooring failures could be avoided by just doing those two things? Absolutely. Some of these guys don't even don't even know there's about a half a dozen different types of tack strip to be used. And each one has a specific purpose. Josh, are you aware that prior to the internet, they used to write books? If you didn't know how to do something you might get this Complete Do-it-yourself guide from Reader's Digest. I'm sure whenever you're going to court you always refer first to Reader's Digest Complete Do It Yourself manual, right? That's the first place to start. It made me think you know, YouTube is a lot easier if I'm not very skilled at working on my vehicle. But that's where I go to try to get an idea but exactly what you're saying that doesn't make you an expert, it just as a starting point. Before YouTube, it was hands on with a slap to the back of your head. What are you stupid? Things of that nature. And that's how we how I learned from my generation. We are excited to announce that our best-selling book How To Suck Less At Estimating: Habits For Better Project Outcomes by Jon Isaacson, The Intentional Restorer, is now available as a course. This book is full color with diagrams and it's a lot more technical than the prior estimating book Be Intentional: Estimating. Which pairs well with the project management book. This book, How to Suck Less at Estimating is also a course available online through our friends at Restoration Technical Institute. We just heard from them that the first person actually purchased the course. So we're looking forward to getting feedback from that. This course has six modules which reflect the six chapters in this book. If you sign up for the course you get a free PDF copy that is designed to to correspond with the course. So in order in order to to talk about where we're at and how we got here, I have to take a step backwards and give a little bit of background. I won't take very long take very long.
Contrary to his promise, it did take pretty long. You may have noticed, as of late, the podcast has been condensed into 24 minute episodes. That's been on purpose. It's allowed me or forced me to try to be more concise and getting the information out. This particular episode is universal in the sense of talking about what it takes to become an expert and Bob and Josh and Pete share some good insights. And I believe in Daubert, we've kind of shared a scientific method for trying to determine that for yourself. But the timely element of this is an event that's happening in January of 2023. Three events:
So Monday night, assuming people are coming in getting situated traveling, we're gonna have a unique event from The DYOJO and Pete Consigli. On Monday the 23rd we have a meet and greet at the Boston Beer Garden which is going to be fabulous. Cliff Zlotnik is going to be there.
This year, has a one time panel that will never happen again called The Pioneer Panel of Building Science. This is Dr. Joe Lstiburek, John Tooley, Neil Moyer, and Gary Nelson. These are four individual guys who are in their own rights are are giants in the area. This is historical, probably one of a kind, likely never to be repeated portion of that event.
So these guys all in their own right to different aspects and they are the Pioneer panel. So that's the Tuesday and Wednesday the 24th and 25th.
The other thing that's going to be under the DYOJO brand is going to be a special post conference workshop on Thursday, the 26th. Cliff Zlotnik, the Z Man, is going to be there, one of the two OG's. He's going to help with the moderating. This is going to be Lessons Learned from Storm Response and Hurricane Recovery. It's a one-day workshop with various speakers. We're gonna have a hurricane panel workshop that's gonna focus on response and recovery from a catastrophic storm. We are going to offer this workshop in-person osite for those that stick around following the building symposium. There will be a zoom option as well. Keep posted via the DYOJO website and The DYOJO Podcast for more information. So this extended version of the podcast is more of the information as we're continuing to continuing to develop both for Andrew Ask and our storm response workshop. What are the lessons learned from storm response and hurricane recovery. So the speaker lineup is going to be pretty awesome.
To me this is the most important thing, that you get a variety of perspectives, you address the particular point of the issue and challenge, and then you you allow the audience to have an interactive questions of things that are general interest to them. Anyone involved with assessing, inspecting, coming up with solutions, dealing with insurance claims, dealing with specialty outside vendors, and how do you interpret the science and a practitioners viewpoint? Attendees will get good education. If you have that it brings people in and then if you put the venue's either through the main events or off site people get together in the conversations in the bars, the restaurants, the things that they do, that's what really is the real value to help grow and develop their business. Develop relationships and do business in the future and I think a lot of that will exist. An expert is somebody who knows what he's talking about through experience, training, and education. You cannot become an expert without all three.” - Bob Blochinger As a guest for Episode 94 of The DYOJO Podcast, Bob Blochinger shares his thoughts on the roadmap to expertise. For a professional to seek and achieve expertise, they need to be able to:
From his own experience Bob states, “Whatever questions, or problems, or whatever exists that needs explanation or evaluation, the expert needs to know what he's saying and how to explain it so that a regular person can understand.” Determining whether information is reliableIn our discussion, Bob notes that expert witnesses have to pass the Daubert Standard. We share a video from Forensics Group talking about this rule, “According to the Federal Rules of Evidence 702, a witness who was qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education.” The Daubert Rule addresses the knowledge, skill, training, and education of a relevant witness. I like how Bob puts it, "Education, training, and experience." Experiences are often one of those key factors that tie all of the information and knowledge together. I find this concept to be interesting. I'm thankful that Mr. Blochinger brought the Daubert Standard up. This is a great metric for determining whether information shared with a restoration contractor is relevant and reliable. A good question to ask, is whether the information that you're receiving from industry leaders, influencers, and experts, (a) is it relevant to the task at hand and (b) does it rest on a reliable foundation. A scientific approach to expertisePerhaps the highest takes arena in which expertise is on display is in the courtroom. Testimony should be based on sufficient facts or data. Experts should be sharing information that is the product of reliable principles and methods. This affirms we want to apply a scientific method or methodology to the processing of information to determine whether it's reliable. The scientific methodology applied to Rule 702 helps us determine:
Does the process, of confirming whether the information is relevant, eliminate confirmation bias? Just because we believe that something is true, did we only seek out information that supported our preconceived notions rather than actually being open to our hypothesis being wrong? Experts demonstrate a mastery of knowledgeCalling upon his experience as an expert witness, Mr. Blochinger shares, “When you sit in a courtroom on the witness stand and you get grilled by the opposing attorney, you do not have notes in front of you. You do not have a book. You do not have photographs. You have to answer questions in a manner that you come across as intelligent. That you understand. We call these competent witnesses subject matter experts.” When the Restoration Industry Association (RIA) created the Body of Knowledge, the stated that the third level of knowledge, mastery, was defined as, “Without reference material, promptly and correctly apply subject knowledge and skills to solve typical problems or address detailed issues in the subject.” Professionals are nearing mastery when they are able to apply the principles of property restoration in their everyday lives without having to check their reference materials. They know the concepts and are able to apply them to real-world situations. Wherever you are at in your professional journey, keep yourself hungry for expertise. |
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